Govern-fucking-mental Idiocy
With our government thinking its pretty great attempting to exploit NZ music as an export, and pouring money into the local scene, the at least 10% or there abouts quota NZ music on radio/tv, one question remains. Why is the tax on Musical equipment being imported so fucking high? They class musical equipment as a luxury good.
I was trying to buy a bass amp, for what, like $2099 from the rockshop. I had a wee look round on ye olde net, and found elsewhere in the world this amp cost $1000, without freight. SO tack on $100 and you get wowee $1100. So theres a $999 mark-up from what? STRAIGHT TAXATION.
The point is, with the current emphasis on making the NZ music scene more vibrant and diverse, yet they make the cost of getting into the scene incredibly high on a student loan salary. Lets face it, musicians earn a pittance but they do what they love so they keep at . And they start young. Kiwi bands ARE starting to get a little recognition overseas so money is thrown at them. As it should be. But by the law averages, shouldn't more bands overall mean more good ones (and lot more shit ones but ignore that for now)? So why look like helping the scene whilst at the same time hindering it?
Considering a large amount of NZmusic users are musicians, I thought it was a relevant issue, so whats the concensus - blowing smoke out my arse as usual or is there a glimmer of truth?
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Comments
nah i don't think it's all that relevant. as you say, it's relatively to order new gear from over seas for a fraction of the price we get here, so it's not something that seems all that shocking and criminal. you can put it to the government if you want, but i'm sure they have other concerns right now
Haha i'm sure they do with the coming election. But its more if they see Music an export, why heavily tax the tools of the trade? It may be a bad analogy, but consider someone exporting, I don't know, a wooden tables. This would contribute to NZ's economy. But theres hardly going to be a luxury tax on a hammer and nails, the tools of the trade, so why tax a musicians tools so heavily? Both a craftsmans tools and a musicians instruments can potentially contribute to the NZ economy. Besides which, have you even been slapped with a performance tax (or thereabouts I can't recall the name)? Any which way, if you get income from performing it shifts you into a different tax bracket, which takes a hell of a lot more of your money. Maybe that was just my experience. So, thats already a threefold money-grab from the musician's pocket, who earns fuck all anyway.
// if you get income from performing it shifts you into a different tax bracket,
That'd be secondary tax. Nothing to do with music.
Also, I don't think the government see music as a big export earner. Depending on how stuff is structured, only the royalties are likely to come back to NZ to be taxed...
//That'd be secondary tax. Nothing to do with music.
Not quite, I remember it specifically denoting that is was tax on income from performanceand also that my acc levies went up drastically. The band I was in recieved money for playing at a stadium so the organisers had to show that it was compensation for entertainment.
That would be the weird with-holding tax thing for self-employed contractor type things probably. Similar to film extras, election day workers etc., all of which have varying tax codes. And you have to pay your own ACC as your self-employed.
//That would be the weird with-holding tax thing for self-employed contractor type things probably. Similar to film extras, election day workers etc., all of which have varying tax codes. And you have to pay your own ACC as your self-employed.
Yep, bang on. That was the deal indeed after ferretting around for the abhorrent form.
That $1000 markup isn't going to be straight import taxation, is it? You're talking about buying retail; I imagine the rock shop would be including a considerable chunk in profit & overheads (eg rent & wages), on top of shipping, warehousing, duty and GST.
This is true, but the prices I saw elsewhere WERE retail prices that would include the same overheads and profit margins as any company in the world selling instruments would have.
retail from an actual store, or an internet site?
I'd be very surprised if there was much duty on it at all. After all, they stopped making stereo equipment in NZ the moment the tariffs were dropped, and most of our recent governments are ideologically opposed to duties/tariffs.
Local shops may well have been bitten by the exchange rate. If the shop has had it something in stock for a year or so (or worse yet, had forward currency hedging), then they will have paid the price probably in US dollars, so while you can get it for the equivalent of $1000 now, they probably had to pay 25% more than that.
The effect of GST is likely to be cancelled out by the sales tax in the other country.
whew, narrowly missed a whiplash post there..
Wow, check this out! Having recently looked into import duties (really riveting stuff, btw) I have the relevant pages at my fingertips...
Musical instruments fall under chapter 92 of the Working Tariff of New Zealand. They are all free of import duty.
http://www.customs.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/BDE278CC-F1DD-4977-B785-52F165D5...
As for microphones, amplifiers, loudspeakers etc, they come under chapter 85 and mostly either have no import duty or a duty of 7% of their customs value (which is not the same as retail value). Unless they're from Canada, that is. Then they're free.
Anyway it's all pretty complicated and boring… and don't quote me ;)
[ external link ]
// Wow, check this out!
that's supposed to fool you into thinking it's actually going to be interesting
// Then they're free.
in the interests of being more right than wrong I'd like to point out that by this I mean "free of duty". Not free as in, whoa, free!
I'll stop now. Back to work, huh.
Ah, so most of the markup is retail profit, with smaller part of it being a tariff/duty?
In the interest of accuracy i wouldn't call it retail 'profit'... someone else might have a better idea of how shops work out their pricing...?
Either that, or they can't buy the stock in as cheaply! It's a bit like the way supermarkets can buy wine for much less than little bottle-shops. It's all about the numbers. If the site you're buying from in the US moves a few thousand bass amps a year, they're likely to get a volume discount...
On the other hand, traditional retail shops do tend to double the price of things to get their markup (although obviously that mark up includes wages, advertising, shop rental etc.)
Heh - my head was starting to scramble, as I was damn sure there was very little sales tax on anything these days, and no such thing as luxury tax, and thinking OMG, I'm going to have to look this all up. But then Jess did - so Jess is officially my hero for today.
:)
Haha Blowing smoke out my arse then I guess
I think if you wanted to protest taxes on anything that's really important to life you could start by taking a look at GST on food and things like that and you'd be more likely to be able to build up an army of supporters.
//...I thought it was a relevant issue, so whats the concensus
fwiw i'm enjoying the effort you've been putting into the forum topics recently. go.
Meh I was too pissed off bout having to scrape together money to worry bout that. Besides I was genuinely interested as to whether I had a point or not. Hmm I did sound like the drunken grandad at the dinner table that blathers on about superannuation didn't I?
//fwiw i'm enjoying the effort you've been putting into the forum topics recently. go.
Cheers dust, though I do note that I get my arse swiftly kicked
//Cheers dust, though I do note that I get my arse swiftly kicked
Nah, don't worry about that; just people are more likely to post to disagree. It's not personal. Mostly.
I wouldn't call it an arse kicking. It's more, er, people with a little time on their hands who like to indulge in "critical thinking". And by critical, I mean to test out alternative hypotheses as a method to test the logic of the original argument. I can't speak for the others, but a big part of my day job is to question the underlying logic of things.
// you could start by taking a look at GST on food and things like that
The arguement is that people on low incomes spend a greater percentage of their income on food, so it's unfair on them to have GST on food. This is an interesting arguement, and indeed in Australia, people protested and so the government decided to not include GST on unprocessed food when GST was introduced there.
Apparently a similar point was raised back in the mid-'80s when NZ was working at introducing GST. But interestingly enough, people on high incomes usually manage to avoid paying income tax through clever accounting, but the one thing they usually can't get away with claiming as a business expense is food. Not only that, but people on high incomes usually spend more in total than people on lesser incomes. So that's why we tax food here.
I think that most of you are too young to remember how high income taxes were before GST was introduced in 1986
The top bracket 66% was dropped to 33%
The lower bracket 38% was dropped to 19%
In 2000 a new bracket was created 39% for those over 60K
I suppose we could drop GST, but who'd like to pay such high rastes again ?
ooops
The lower bracket 38% (not 18%) was dropped to 19%
dropping it wouldn't necessarily have to involve dropping it entirely....just an inch or two, or like robyn pointed out-on unprocessed food like aussie.
new zealand; good economy but comparitively expensive cost of living. i never met too many poor farmers, but i met a hell of a lot of poor urbanites.
but as for music, cos that's what this is about- i'm with t-dub -Ms Government- remove GST from musical equipment- save us at least $100 for any quality instrument, at least $200 on serious amps, save over $5 on bass strings-
this would be supporting nz musicians
//this would be supporting nz musicians
But where would you stop? nz musicians surely are not the only class deserving of this sort of waiver, probably not even the most deserving class. So you'd end up with a hodge podge of rules, with carved out bits of the economy where there is no GST and into which everyone would be trying to cram themselves. The original idea behind GST was that as a trade-off for avoiding the messy situations that would inevitably arise, there would be an overall lowered rate of GST. And to be fair to the Govt that introduced the GST, they at the same time dismantled a whole bunch of sales taxes. Subsequently, import restrictions have been removed - there was the time when you would have to get governmental approval by way of an import licence if you wanted to bring in anything over some ridiculous amount, like $20, worth of goods. Things are, as a result, a damn sight cheaper than they would otherwise have been and, as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, GST is likely to be a very small component of the overall cost. And any musician actually earning the kind of money that justifies protection gets to buy their equipment free of GST anyway - since they will be able to deduct it from GST on their own sales.
ok, i'll try to keep this real clean, but i'm gonna have to do it phrase for phrase cos that's how you writ it
//But where would you stop?
at musical equipment. no eye drops, no condoms, no flyspray, just standard middle of the road musical gear.
//nz musicians surely are not the only class deserving of this sort of waiver, probably not even the most deserving class
possibly not the most deserving class, you are right there myshkin, but we don't hare the government trumpeting the specialness of new zealand kiwi fruit growers. i'd put my ass on the line and contend that over the last whatever number of years, the nz gov has invested a fair amount of money and a fair amount of time attesting that they've been investing a fair amount of money,and that they support music, they support nz musicians and we are [in some way] where it's at [or should be] [could be] [but haven't been yet] [but might just be the next big thing] [but not quite] lesbianism
it happened right?
the nz gov said they support nz music
correct me if i'm wrong
and so...
you wouldn't end up with a hodge podge of rules unless the customs man taking his bit confuses a guitar with an hemi melon, which is [i a minge] a little difficult unless he's a folking tard.
//economy where there is no GST and into which everyone would be trying to cram themselves
yeah all 4 million of us are gonna get wicked in the music industry when we discover we can save 100 biggies on an amp. old mike from otara gonna be schnizzeling that nizzle foisting off A grade gibsons at them low low prices.
damn bro, you busted everyone in one sentence.
//The original idea behind GST was that as a trade-off for avoiding the messy situations that would inevitably arise, there would be an overall lowered rate of GST.
i'm sure they'll get round to lowering that significantly in the future. i'll bet my right lung on that.
//And to be fair to the Govt that introduced the GST, they at the same time dismantled a whole bunch of sales taxes.
yeah. to be fair to fccking rinsers.
//Subsequently, import restrictions have been removed - there was the time when you would have to get governmental approval by way of an import licence if you wanted to bring in anything over some ridiculous amount, like $20, worth of goods.
superb.
//Things are, as a result, a damn sight cheaper than they would otherwise have been and, as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, GST is likely to be a very small component of the overall cost.
just a rough guess....
12.5%?
//And any musician actually earning the kind of money that justifies protection gets to buy their equipment free of GST anyway
now this is a dang fool statement. what do you mean any musican who justifies protection?
protection from what?
paying $100 extra for a jibson les paul?
as musicians we [bold]all[bold] deserve protection from this kind of scandalous shit.
what right does the G.O.V have to slip in and tax there little stipened out of us wanting to get rhythmical?
and 'how the fuck is that supporting nzmusic?'
and if i may
once again;
//And any musician actually earning the kind of money that justifies protection gets to buy their equipment free of GST anyway
bullshat motherlover.
not all musicians are earning money,
many musicians ain't earned a cent,
what is this?
if you don't make money, you're not a musician?
fuck that sh%t
that's a complete load of crap,
if i'm some jimmy booth out in the fccking wops and i want a play a fccking g-tar and i go and buy one from this 'the rockshop' then i want a fccking discount sir, because i want to play #$%$#%ing music,
and i want some support.
nz music
no biggie.
rabbit
If you're a musician, and you're spending money on your music, register for GST and you can claim back what you spend. The only catch is that you have to pay GST on what you earn. Simple as that.
// I think that most of you are too young to remember how high income taxes were before GST was introduced in 1986
Not to mention all the crazy sale taxes on various item. Shampoo was considered a luxury item and taxed accordingly. Ever washed your hair with a bar of Sunlight soap?
//now this is a dang fool statement. what do you mean any musican who justifies protection?
protection from what? paying $100 extra for a jibson les paul?
as musicians we all deserve protection from this kind of scandalous shit.
what right does the G.O.V have to slip in and tax there little stipened out of us wanting to get rhythmical?
and 'how the fuck is that supporting nzmusic?'
Well the governement aren't interested in those people just sitting at home strumming a guitar, they are interested in those people who are going to go out there and earn a living from it. I thought that would have been blindingly obvious.
For 75% of the people out there who own an instrument it is nothing but a hobby... why should these people get the advantage of not having to pay tax on their purchases? For those people who are already earning money as a musician (as was previously said) you can claim back your paid GST anyway - so the system is set up to help those who are serious about it.
Personally I think that the government already has too much influence in the musical arena - if anything we need less government interference and less support.
This is all IMHO anyway...
High Rates?
The Poor and Working Classes are paying expodentially High rates.
And they get fuck all back for it.
Although occasionally some Paragon of Self-Made Fortune will tell them its "their fault".
GST was introduced solely to attack the poor, to enforce them to prop up the poisition of the ruling elite.
Im stunned this needs to be discussed, whats next, How 1991's ECA helped Working Familes?
GST is a state contrived Oppressor of those at the bottom of the heap.
Why else would the crony-Capatilists of Gibbs, Watson, Hart, Fay, Shirtcliffe etal and there print accomplises such as Codington, Duff, and Haden trumpet then as "the way forward"?
Do the Math and get back to us on how the surfiet of User pays, the Collapse of National Awards and The Unionised Collectives, and the formation of Goods and Services Tax has not forced 20% of this country into abject and continuing Poverty.
The Aim of Caygill, Prebble, and Douglass was to ensure that the rich paid less tax, as this in the new-right fairyland is sold to us as Growth/Trickle Down/Economic Stimulator
The sucsess with there lego is our continued failure.
//The Poor and Working Classes are paying expodentially High rates.
Definitely, In comparison to their wages.
//The Aim of Caygill, Prebble, and Douglass was to ensure that the rich paid less tax, as this in the new-right fairyland is sold to us as Growth/Trickle Down/Economic Stimulator
Though I am unfamiliar with Caygill, Prebble, and Douglass, but the doesn't the trickle down effect only really apply to less tax on business?
It appears quite a few New Zealand businesses can be either forced to downscale, exit the market or base itself offshore due to a fairly heavy tax. (Could someone find something to either discredit this, or support this? I'm not too sure where to get hard info on it)
The advantages of less tax on New Zealand business could be quite far-reaching; stronger dollar if thats useful, more activity in offshore business due to more money to throw at it, therefore more money for the government through export, wages increase.
The cost of living versus pay is insane! I find GST in most cases to be a necessary evil and GST on most products IS acceptable if that means more money in the pocket due to less income tax. Mind you, they tax you when you get your money, then they tax you for spending it so maybe we're really no better off. BUT the point is that it costs so much to live here, and with the wages recieved, it can be hard just to get products for basic living. I mean, I know a middle-class family that moved over from the UK who were appauled at how much work they had to put in for so little pay. It meant that back in the UK wages were high enough to balance against living costs so they could live reasonably well-off. That maybe a load of bunk as the pound is worth 3 times the amount as the NZ dollar. But even in Australia the balance of wages against living costs is more even.
Less tax on business=more money in NZ economy=higher wages=lower living costs=more disposable income =I get to buy my bass amp
Righto,
the arguement presented is cool, and is commonly used as leverage/justification for a policy on business tax rate.
Where the contention arises is that the instances presented Never, Ever, Actually Happen.
Higher Wages cos the Boss is earning More?
Never happens without collective forcing the issue (EPMU, watch carefully).
In fact the Govt is paying benefits, sorry allowances, to top up errant Employers whose Hrly rates are unsustainable for Working Familes.
Its a Goddam Sorryass shambles.
Its a fallacy to propergate the idea that through perks to the rich we will all benefit.
All Workers Conditions, Entitlements, and Legal Statue Protections have come through Orgainized Collective Struggle.
Compassionate Conservitism, all the other jingoistic claptrap to sweeten the Far/New Right Economic medicine, is a nonesense. Make no mistake, its barefaced Facisim, in that the most important and sacrosant Societal Instatution is the Corperation. The individuals Rights are championed be cause you alone are nothing.
Crikey,
More money in Economy.
I think i castigated Noizy on this years ago, look Policy directed at Rich or Topend is shortsighted, and decietful in that everyone knows, or should know the outcome.
Measures that target from the "Bottom" increase the Communitys wealth by the provo that THEY MUST SPEND THE MONEY LOCALLY.
ie not importing $30000 Dinner sets. It requires an astonishingly low brain space to not comprehend the logic of increaseing the lower rungs. In fact I would venture that The Alliance Policy of increasing the Minimum Wage BY LAW has done more too push the general standerd of living upward.
Now this is not addressing the driving concern, ie your purchase power and desired Bass Amp.
But to put it into that context, you are more likely to earn more by belonging to a Trade union, by activally canvassing Local Politicaians over the decisions they make, by supporting Local institutions that help you.
Have you talked to Steve Bartlet re Bass Amp?
Theres a reconditioned unit at Soundwaves New Brighton, loud as fuck.
If your speciflly shopping "brand" then you are constrained by what Retail gets to stock. However i belive Portia on this site occasionally runs import schemes that may be appliciable to your needs.
Aside from that , bite the bullet, if you realy want the Gear, get a job and work your ass off, thats how Igot my Equip, and frankly its Fantastic.
i'm sure those $50+ strings sound real sweet.
no robyn, i've never washed my hair with sunlight soap and i'm pretty sodding pleased about that.
scott, well, what can i say?
//For 75% of the people out there who own an instrument it is nothing but a hobby...
you're damn right, a hobby which just so happens to be playing nz music,
//why should these people get the advantage of not having to pay tax on their purchases?
well why not?
they're new zealand's musicians?
they're entertaining you,
they're the guys playing at those parties many of us attend,
the parties with 5 bands for $5,
the parties where the bands pay for free,
to liven up your life,
do you remember those 5 bands?
do you remember the sweat they poured out to maintain that fucking redundant sound track to your great night drinking expensive beers?
you wanna tell us it's just a hobby?
you wanna jump up on stage mid set, grab the mic and in your sweetist voice ever tell us musicians it's just a hobby?
away with you
hornby model trains is a hobby scott,
shooting wild elephants is a hobby,
peter snell?
hobbyist.
//so the system is set up to help those who are serious about it.
fcck this elitist crap.
if you only play charity gigs you aren't serious?
you twat
if you ain't playing sport/music/chess for money, you're not serious about it?
the government will give $5000 dollar grants to artists who've never earned a cent
were they serious?
did they have the capital to prove there seriousness
there must be a hell of alot of volunteer workers out there who just aren't serious enough for you scotty
//Well the governement aren't interested in those people just sitting at home strumming a guitar,
well why the fuck not?
they lost interest in anything that can't generate cash?
is that why nz performed so craply at the last olympics?
where's the national spirit and the desire to promote our culture?
the way i understand it,
these $5000 grants are nothing to do with exports
they are to get more nz music on air
so the govs interest is alreaduy way more that just generating exports.
//they are interested in those people who are going to go out there and earn a living from it. I thought that would have been blindingly obvious.
no scotty, that isn't obvious,
firstly because so many acts they support don't earn a living from it.
sure they earn some money,
and very very few earn a living
so no scott i am not blinded by this obviousness.
aw, cmon rope, not everyone that goes out and buys a guitar is quite so blessed with creative desperation as you are; why should the government (hence the taxpayer) offer a cheap break to a snotty teen that hounds mummy and daddy for an axe for christmas just so he can shred like christian datsun for twelve minutes then stick it in the back of his wardrobe until he sells it off to cash converters for booze money in his first year of university? There are plenty of other ways they can support every visionary that eats, shits and bleeds his craft without having to make musical equipment the sole exception to the gst rule, and while I'm at it I'm pretty sure Peter Snell would take serious offence to being called a hobbyist, although I've no doubt that was intentional. Besides, if you were *really* committed, I'm sure you'd be able to forego all the expensive machinery; hand in your guitar pick in favour of a dead bird.
// Crikey,
More money in Economy.
I think i castigated Noizy on this years ago, look Policy directed at Rich or Topend is shortsighted, and decietful in that everyone knows, or should know the outcome.
Measures that target from the "Bottom" increase the Communitys wealth by the provo that THEY MUST SPEND THE MONEY LOCALLY.
ie not importing $30000 Dinner sets. It requires an astonishingly low brain space to not comprehend the logic of increaseing the lower rungs. In fact I would venture that The Alliance Policy of increasing the Minimum Wage BY LAW has done more too push the general standerd of living upward.
Just for a lark, how do see a flat tax rate as opposed to the current progressive tax system?Would it help Mr and Mrs Damned-if-do-damned-if-I-dole working class?
//why should the government (hence the taxpayer) offer a cheap break to a snotty teen that hounds mummy and daddy for an axe for christmas just so he can shred like christian datsun for twelve minutes then stick it in the back of his wardrobe until he sells it off to cash converters for booze money in his first year of university?
to support nz music.
cos one of those families [somwhere] buying that snotty nosed son of a bitch an instrument might just be able to afford something of slightly better quality [given the gst break], this could mean they'd have more money to spend on christmas turkey, who loses?
and frankly to take this a little further maybe the family is so fucking poor that this gst break means they can finally afford to buy young Manu that guitar which he will take to like a duck, and become such a wizard that he doesn't need to go to university and hence doesn't need to take out a student loan of about $10,000 dollars which he'll never have to pay back.
if as you say he doesn't dig it and it goes to cash converters, do the government collect more gst on the damn thing indefinitely until someone finally smashes the poor 'cyclone'.
//There are plenty of other ways they can support every visionary that eats, shits and bleeds his craft without having to make musicians the sole exception to the gst rule,
yes there are, i agree,
but this isn't about visionaries
i didn't even mention richard marx
it's about musicians
and supporting them
this is nzmusic.com right?
or have i stumbled into 'fuck giving musos a break.com'
//and while I'm at it I'm pretty sure Peter Snell would take serious offence to being called a hobbyist
yeah, well just to clarify,
that was in reply to scotty presenting the notion that people not making a living off their hobby are not serious, an indictment against all the fucking amateurs who have made this country great.
//I'm sure you'd be able to forego all the expensive machinery; hand in your guitar pick in favour of a dead bird.
what?
The way see it, removing GST won't do MUCH...but it would help. The parents with the snot nosed teen would never buy a good quality instrument for their son. GST removal wouldn't do too much on the bargin bin guitar, it'll still be cheap and nasty and disposable AND the fact that its a percentage, not $100 off everything. As the prices climb when you get into better quality gear, the tax break becomes far more obvious in monetary terms. Only people serious about getting into music would consider paying around $1500 for an instrument, so they benefit from cheaper prices, which also means those who wanted to get into the music scene but couldn't quite afford it are now able to get better quality gear. $100 difference is huge when you're only getting $60 a week.
//to support nz music.
cos one of those families [somwhere] buying that snotty nosed son of a bitch an instrument might just be able to afford something of slightly better quality [given the gst break], this could mean they'd have more money to spend on christmas turkey, who loses?
Well then how about scrapping the gst on the turkey? Then not only are the flowering kiwi music champions getting a break, but so are the artists, writers, water polo players & professional gamers. Then maybe poor little Manu who's shown a remarkable ability and desire to stand on tippy-toes also has the option now of paying for ballet lessons.
//that was in reply to scotty presenting the notion that people not making a living off their hobby are not serious, an indictment against all the fucking amateurs who have made this country great.
...and you're still only demanding tax breaks on musical equipment?
//I'm sure you'd be able to forego all the expensive machinery; hand in your guitar pick in favour of a dead bird.
//what?
Well, while we're championing kiwi music here, I'd like to take the opportunity to soapbox my battle against all things generic. Why existing musical equipment; stuff that more often than not be used to homogenise our culture further? What about those people making music on their computers? What about a bunch of percussionists using buckets and detergent bottles? Are the musicians that are being considerably more innovative than your regular common or garden rock band going to miss out just because they're not using conventional musical instruments? Where do you draw the line?
//Why existing musical equipment; stuff that more often than not be used to homogenise our culture further? What about those people making music on their computers? What about a bunch of percussionists using buckets and detergent bottles? Are the musicians that are being considerably more innovative than your regular common or garden rock band going to miss out just because they're not using conventional musical instruments? Where do you draw the line?
The line should and would be drawn here; a musical instrument to be sold for the primary use of creating music.That would include software, and hardware for creating music on a computer. Anything where its primary use was something other than music would not have a break on it.
Anything sold in a registered music outlet would have GST removed.
Since the garden rock bank would be using instruments sold from a music store, they could use money saved on those instruments to buy 100 detergent bottles.
t-dub speaks the truth in that it's only gonna be the decent instruments whose prices are affected significantly.
this is not nzturkey.com
the nz gov has made it quite clear to all who'll listen, that they support nz music,
they've wasted/well spent thousands of $$$ on all sorts of music related jizz
and you have issues with a tax break on gear?
having just received a $5000 raise?
we promise we won't raise your taxes
we'll just cut a tiny amount out of the gst revenue,
//Why existing musical equipment; stuff that more often than not be used to homogenise our culture further?
well why not? isn't a homogenised culture better than one where people are protesting about race?
protesting about sexuality?
i'd prefer fucking homogenisation to that shit any day of the month.
//What about those people making music on their computers?
good stuff
//What about a bunch of percussionists using buckets and detergent bottles?
good luck
//Are the musicians that are being considerably more innovative than your regular common or garden rock band going to miss out just because they're not using conventional musical instruments
innovative?
with buckets and detergent bottles?
it's been done
innovation can go throw itself out a high storeyed window
this is about the bread and butter of playing music,
we don't need to get technical,
where to draw the line?
at the primary use for an object
the primary use for a banjo is to play music,
the primary use for a bucket is to carry shit in
i don't see too much confusion.
oops
//the nz gov has made it quite clear to all who'll listen, that they support nz music,
//they've wasted/well spent thousands of $$$ on all sorts of music related jizz
...and that's your rationale for demanding more? You're still completely ignoring the issue of various other cultural ambassadors in arts and sports that are equally worthy of assistance.
//having just received a $5000 raise?
get fucked
//innovation can go throw itself out a high storeyed window
//this is about the bread and butter of playing music,
//we don't need to get technical,
There's still a double standard there - conventional musicians get breaks, musicians whose primary instruments are computers don't; unless you reckon a note signed by my music teacher should get $450 knocked off the price of my next laptop?
I'm all for government support of kiwi music. Just wholesale knocking GST off the price of instruments really doesn't do it for me.
yes, that's a rationale. they be throwing money at it like nobodies business, remember when they got all those big wigs here to listen to some bands....lucrative....
the amount of money must be fuck all anyway there's no end to ways they can save money to afford musicians a measley tax break, as jess therese said we can all already get this break, just not up front so it's not like it's gonna be costing you anything.
i am ignoring other ambassadors
because this is a music site
and this thread is about music
//primary instruments are computers don't;
but they do
like t-dub just said:
//That would include software, and hardware for creating music on a computer.
//I'm all for government support of kiwi music. Just wholesale knocking GST off the price of instruments really doesn't do it for me.
but the legislation already exists whereby we can claim back the gst anyway
so what's the problem with having it upfront?