It's a bigger risk for bar owners than for underage people

Interesting point, but have you ever been to an all ages show? It's not really like that...so easy to make sweeping generalisations about teenagers based on "mall behaviour" of a minority...

The problem with most kids at all ages gigs, is that most of them are there cos their friends are, or to look cool/to be seen etc, rather than for the music. They seem to think that getting drunk or acting loud and obnoxious is cool. And hey, if you throw up, 10 bonus points. However, not all underage kids are like that. I most certainly am not. But this sort of bullshit (and the talking over music thing) is the very reason why i do not choose to go to such events. I dont go to bars to drink, but to see and hear bands live. I guess teens would benefit from having an all ages venue somewhere, but i find that at bars it is better, cos there arent any kids/scenesters being loud/silly, ruining the atmosphere and my enjoyment of the music (and others for that matter).

There should be some kind of system for people who want to just enjoy the show. Segregation is an option (like the invercargill example above) but I don't think it would work very well if you want young people to act with maturity in an environment which demands it.

The occasional all ages show in a usually licenced venue could be a good start, where underagers can easily be identified to not allow them to drink, but not exclude them from enjoying the show. I am especially refering to events like orientation at uni where a small group are not old enough to attend. Although this could become nearly the entire orientation crowd if the drinking age is raised.
I too don't want a venue to suffer because they have people under the legal drinking age in their bar (although door staff these days should probably take care checking ID's -I know I'm bad sometimes with it usually because I'm not paying close attention until they've walked away and I realise how young they look and then I hope the bar staff have the guts not to serve them just because they got past the door). I believe that underage people have just as much right to enjoy the music but there has to be a legal way this can happen in the future.

//The occasional all ages show in a usually licenced venue could be a good start, where underagers can easily be identified to not allow them to drink, but not exclude them from enjoying the show.
This is a very common in Nelson, people were ID on arrival and those over 18 had a stamp placed on the wrist.
I have gone to R18s, all ages, youth venues, and those venues that allow accompanied U18s and speaking from a purly parental pov, I feel strongly that true all ages gigs are a good thing, this allows our teens to observe resonably responsible drinking, I happly allow my teen to attened these venues on her own, where as I am lothed to let her go to the youth venue, where over the top drunkness and bad behavour seem the norm.
I am comming to the conclusion that part of our binge thing is because teens are excluded from being part of adult culture and there for have no "rolemodels" and some how work on the missunderstanding that you have to "tank up" before you go out, so arrive at youth gigs pissed out of their tiny brains.more often than not the "kids" are there because it's the "place to be" and have little or no interest in the music.
It is only at youth venues that I have had to wade throu piss and blood and puke to get to the loos.
But then again I hate all drunkness, no matter how old the drunk is, nothing gets my goat quicker than a drunken dickhead talking trou a set, so maybe what we need is to separate the music venue where you can have a drink, from pubs that have live music, instead of separating the teens from the adults.

crack me in half!! fucking band members?? short skirts haha yeh...its all true. i'm sixteen as well and i know what you mean about the age barrier! its bloody annoying! i went to this gig not to long ago in wellington and well...admittedly every one of us was under age and out of the 6 of us olny two-younger looking ones got asked for ID..and none of us were drinking....shows hw annoying it is to look young boohoo! but the point is that we should be able to go to gigs and....nt drink ackys but still enjoy the music....maybe bands ar'nt such a bad idea???Or put sum gigs else where

of course i'm aware parents might not want to escort their kids to a loud music venue. but that's the only option you have legally. in any case, are you representative of all the underagers out there that try to get into gigs illegally? i'm willing to bet most of the teenagers out there don't want to be seen with their parents either, so that's why they don't count that option, or just think their olds wouldn't do it and don't bother asking.

but if you can't then YES stay home and not come out. because it's illegal for you to be there and you run the risk of shutting the venue down. if your livei n auckland i'm going to ask you to stay clear of bars too, because raids are being conducted. the police went into the kings arms last night, and they'll be back, so they are going to have to be more stringent with their id checks. good thing they didn't go in on the friday night...

quite possibly they've been monitoring this or other sites- it's pretty much common knowledge how slack tyhey are with ids at the ka. i hope this stops though, i don't want to see the kings arms go down simply because one kid has slipped through the net and jeapordised things for everyone else

whinge whinge whinge

//i've seen ten police officers stream into indigo a couple of times
//why do the cops have to always look so angry?

why does the Indigo bouncer have to always look so angry?

He smiles at me :)

it's a big bar, they really should have more than one. there was at least one other the last time i went, but he looked like he was being trained

if that's the head bouncer he seemed like an awfully jolly and sensible fella when he had to deal with this angus dude who we were abusing from the balcony..

i don't think it is common sense at all, its not the bartenders or bar managers fault if you're a stupid cunt with no self control, most bars won't serve intoxicated people anyway, because intoxicated people are a pain and vomit and fight and such.....fining those who provide a service doesn't solve new zealands drinking problems, but punishing those who personify the problem is far more sensible..
don't even get me started on the anti smoking legislation by the way...i'm already sick of people standing in every fucking doorway in town....

//don't even get me started on the anti smoking legislation by the way...i'm already sick of people standing in every fucking doorway in town....

It was nice to fall asleep last night without the smell of cigarette smoke in my hair. Its nice to know i'm now not contributing to my chances of dying of lung cancer by going to a gig.

ok i obviously have to repeat myself AGAIN- at least heather covered the first part to my rant, as for saying that there'd be no problem if people were sensible about drinking, well that's WHY we have this legislation. because new zealanders are fucking dicks about their piss and don't know how to handle themselves, whereas in other countries they conduct themselves with a bit of class. that's why we need these laws because we can't control ourselves. you DO know it's actually illegal to be drunk in a bar don't you?

// you DO know it's actually illegal to be drunk in a bar don't you?

of course it is, its also illegal to drive above 20kph past a school bus....

my major bone is that the law treats bars as if they are a public place, when they obviously aren't , someone owns the bar and you are there on their terms, just like being in someones house...in my view if they want you to get drunk, then so be it, and if they want to let underagers in, then so be it it as well...

anyway, moving on.....

under age events would be more common if kids weren't so damn fickle..i've organised many youth events now, and often kids will either come en masse because its 'cool' or not at all because it isn't even if the same bands are playing at the same venue on 2 different days...
obviously you expect variation in turnout, but with young people it seems much more polarised...