big day out artists just get platnum placs instead.

The stupid thing that I've noticed about parachute line ups is that all the major acts generally suck (subjective to my opinion of course). As for the local acts, well one can see them for a couple od dollars when they pass into town. Also as a side, there are heaps of good christian bands out there (again subjective to my opinion of course) but I've never seen them in the line up...

also outside a couple of bands, I thought Big day out looks pretty weak, having only seen any initial line ups.

//Third Day are an acclaimed international band they have recieved like a grammy or a golden globe or one of those darn things - dunno how many bdo artists wuld have achieved that.

Only a Christian or someone completely ignorant to music (same thing) would rate a band on how many, or what kind of awards they have won , over the music that they make. You showcase the attitude that renders christians incapable of producing any music that hasn't already been explored to death. christian bands and their rabid supporters are so involved with god that the music merely becomes a platform for them to preach How very very boring you all are.

i think youre
forgetting that
a large %ge of
the best music made
is religious

Styx of all things came into my head today as I was driving home and the thought struck me that in recent years they seem to have gone very religous yet their bassist is a UN ambassador for gay rights.
Eddie Van Halen, my god and master, makes a big deal bout his christianity, Iron Maiden's Nicko McBrain is apparently a born again type now too. On styx's edge of the century album they have a song asking god to 'show them the way' and it struck me that when John Donne wrote 'Batter my Heart three person god, as you yet but shine, breathe, seek to mend...' it was considered outragous that he could question god and demand evidence, so I can give them a little slack. Neither Van Halen nor Iron Maiden are pushing religion down peoples throats so there's nothing there to turn me off.
Long way round to a short question. Don't you get tired to listening to people preach to you?
No offence meant or underlying bile just curious

hmm maybe i should leave this for foal to answer cos he is the man and i've just been studying history for the past few hours and my brain is totally fried :s

i respect you're viewpoint, you're entitled to it but i don't agree.

have you considered that christian artists might write their music before they put the lyrics to it?? the only thing that defines christian music from any other kind of music is the message of their lyrics...if they write the lyrics after they have written the music to a song then how is music not the primary focus?

that's a nice quote you posted from parachute records? however that only explains their mission statement as a record company! the amount of artists actually signed to parachute records is very minimal...not even a tenth of the artists at parachute. many christian bands may use music as a ministry and a medium to exemplify their views...but don't all bands??
does that make it fair to say that anti-christ death metal bands are incapeable of producing quality music because the primary focus is on emitting their message of hate, destruction and the fact that God wants to rape and abuse you??
every musical artist in the world has a message to preach through their music...music is a language, a form of communication and entertainment. if christian artists want to tell the world that God is good that does not make their music invalid.

i dunno if anyone has heard Third Day...the headline act of parachute? but musically they would be competitive with some of the great rock bands, their message is what they believe and what they want others to have the opportunity to know, however their music remains quite genius. they will be an incredible live act. i must admit i don't really like their "style" but i'm still able to appreciate the beauty of their music..

hmmm...bak to history :s
did you know the first missionaries came to nz in 1814, they settled in the bay of islands...u should be blaming them for your avid anger towards the gospel message. (just a brief history lesson for ya there)

sorry to interject, but as foals twin sister i feel a certain genetic dispostion towards offering my own perspective. That being, RDOR, DO YOU NEED A CUT OFF POINT? are you searching for a criteria whereby you can categorize some christians as 'valid' musicians while sending the rest off to be gassed? Would you deny a Mofo with ultra talent the chance to go and receive mass respect because they happened at one time to play in a church or 'God help them' at Parachute. Would you deny the funkyest motherfucker on the planet the right to fraternize or bear association with with a lesser talented tongue speaker? As manama said these bands primary focus is ministry. Do you believe mananama? has he held indepth conversations with each member of all these bands? have they opened up to him? do you still own a black and white TV? does this effect your perception of the world?
do you remember the title of that PUSH PUSH album?

[ external link ]

Frankly Manamana, your post above may be the most wildley inaccurate Ive read on this site.

Parachute gig via local disco not qualifing as NZ Music? have no "contempory" or "secular" band not recieved an overnight boost to their live audiance/exposure. Even if this was true, how can it possibly be described as not NZ music performed by NZ artists. If your contempt for this Band is a result of what you believe to be fradulent marketing ( passing off Hymns written by others as your own tunes), then that is understandable, however if theirs no mis-representation then I would expect you too level the same charges of plagirism, or copping, at any band playing covers.The Industry is infamous for croynisim, it is in fact one of its primary functions, those that have an econmic intrest in a performer, can be expected to demand and work towards getting a return on their outlay. If that equates to getting New Parshioners to your Church to tithe, then thats no different to 6 releases of the same 3minute tracked remixed by this weeks flavour of the month DJ,"limited edition" releases, limited to how many we can sell, and the shambolic attacks on young musicians in the form of oppresive and totally mis-representive Gear endorsements.

Its kind of you too speak up on behalf of NZMusic.com dwellers who claim to love music, however I do not come here to read the advocacy of sanctioning genres. It must be clear to anyone with genuine passion for Music that wholesale rejection of any given Genre, Instrumentation, or Lyrical Content boreders on the inane, and must be a surefire recipe for insuring an indviduals stagnation, and dear I say it, retardation.

Christian bands unable to create anything credible or original?
This is the most foolish thing Ive read in a long time. Im not denying bandwagonism by Christian bands, however to single them out on this charge is beyond the pale. The Industry function is revenue gathering, not Individual expression on their chosen instrument, or in their chosen voice. Could a case be made that the whole "grunge" movement is majorly endebted to the Pixies? How about Modern R&B, Hip-Hop,Rap. The DJ culture of "creating" music from others pre-recorded vinyl? Any set Drum Machine pattern? Its farcial to vilify Christains for lack of "new voice", or original content, when the prevailing Musicial Trends/Stylings appear to have very little to do with Music at all, the overwhelming marketing tool being Sex appeal, and the visual display of wealth acquisition.

Off the top of my head I'd call the following as Christian artists, anyone brave enough to say "unable to create anything original or credible"?
James Brown, Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin, Bob Dylan, Prince, the Staples Singers,U2, George Benson, Larry Graham, Louis Johnson,and the Rev Solomon Burke.
If the genuine beef you have Manamana is with the "preach" or "lyrical content" then why dont we dismiss all forms of political content from Music? How realistic is that, or should we simply reclassify Music whose message we disagree with/have no time for, as NON-NZ?
No Im not going too Parachute, Im also not going to the BDO, this decision is on the Bands performing, not because of their message, or lack of it. One hopes (can i say pray?), that others will make their decisions based upon their willingness to Learn and Grow as musicians, a tenant of which is the ability to use inclusivness, as a factor in incorporating and developing their Own Voice.
Oh, you listen to any Reggae?

All cool Manamana.
Serious apologies if inferral taken was Me levelling Retard at you.
i think your latest post clarifys your poisition well, we just probably dont see eye to eye on a lot of the issues raised. That said I like your passion on "artistic purity", Im just unable to get that worked up about "Christian" bands prostituting themselves when its virtually par for the course or even Industry Standerd.
Good Luck with your Music, and truly, any offence taken I apologise for.

//have you considered that christian artists might write their music before they put the lyrics to it?? the only thing that defines christian music from any other kind of music is the message of their lyrics...if they write the lyrics after they have written the music to a song then how is music not the primary focus?

you're really stupid. i can't take you seriously. sorry .

i think a new thread needs to be started based on foal's genius post!!!
well done buddy!

lol i'm stupid?
i could say alot about the irrationality of your posts manamana but i didn't.
how is what you 'quoted' as being stupid, stupid?
also...check out the 'Christian musicians - Yay or Nay' thread. it seems alot of people disagree with your view bro. doesn't mean ur not entitled to it...
history exam today - anal beads!! :s

okay here is my chance . . . . . . . . .

What does 'lol' mean? . . . yes, I am stupid, i haven't worked it out yet and it's everywhere

"laughs out loud".

I think I might start adding WAIRACTMKH ("wincing as I run a comb through my knotty hair") or RMEATMOTEL ("rolling my eyes at the murder of the English Language") to my posts.

R-Meat-Motel . . . . . . . ????

you scare me

Either:

1. Meat Motel is the new "redrum" or
2. Meat Motel is the hottest new Christian speed metal group, whose name refers to how their pastor described most of the nightclubs in town. They're being all retro-ironic about it while campaigning hard to open up their own smoke/drink/sex free venue, with a dress code that Luci would be proud of.

actually manamana parachute has just as much to do with new zealand music as big day out does. there are probably more new zealand artists playing at parachute than at parachute than big day out...funny that big day out is a hugely accepted discussion topic.

feel free to reject christianity...just don't let it affect your views on every little thing associated with it.

Ok, so mostly I’m taking the piss here. Granted, what I wrote doesn’t read very well, it was late and I was really tired.

Where the bands played before and how they got to Parachute is more pisstake reaction to Disciple and Parachute labeling them as “New Zealand Artists” and “New Zealand music.” My point is that I don’t consider church groups, Christian bands or any related festivals to be New Zealand music; I don’t even consider it to be music at all. To me it can’t be described as genuine music and they can’t be described as artists (con-artists maybe) when for 95% of them music is clearly not the primary focus, it’s merely a tool for spreading the word. So when they label themselves as artists or New Zealand music all I see is a Trojan horse.

You’re a bit OTT here man. I was no where near plagiarism. Copying, trend following - hell yes. This does extend to any band that abnegates art for the sake of money, fame or religion etc. When this happens, the end result can only be terrible music. Christian bands even more so, because they are bound by monastic restrictions from the church and also must conform to whatever current music trend the industry is dictating. How much room do you see left for art?

Covers bands are not artists either.

Haha, come on man! I thought it obvious I was just being a smart arse with regards to speaking on behalf of NZM.com obviously I need to work on my humor, either that or you need to lighten up and stop grasping. Dude I love all kinds of music, (shock horror, even a lot of popular) I am a fan of music, that’s why I can’t handle it when people start screaming the merits of Christian music or any audible catastrophe for that matter. I’m not telling anyone what they should or shouldn’t listen to; all I’m doing is reacting to things I think are wrong. Actually until now I never thought of Christian music as a genre, but yeah if genre is defined by type or class then yes you can relate biblical lyrics and boring music that’s been done 100’s of times before by artistic heathens, then yes I have no problem in rejecting the fuck out of it.
BTW - I can prove on paper that I am retarded

I concede that I am guilty of generalizing EVERY Christian musician as being nothing more than preachers working on top of elevator music. I know that’s not true.

// Christian bands unable to create anything credible or original?

Ok, now if we take the whole quote…

// Why are Christian bands incapable of making anything original or credible? perhaps they are, but they never do.

Ok I messed that up and can see why you’ve reacted like you have. It was supposed to read “perhaps they are not, but they never do (or seem to) I was trying to pose it rhetorically, suggesting that 95% of Christian music is used as a platform for the real motive and not an artistic outlet. Really I’m not that stupid, or ignorant as to suggest religious people are totally incapable of making amazing music. some of the best scores composed were apparently inspired by God. Of course it’s not entirely impossible, but I challenge you to name 1 band involved with Parachute who are making music the world would be better off with.

Here’s a quote that illustrates what I’m speaking against.

“Parachute Records is focused on developing commercially viable Australasian Christian artists. Through Parachute Records we strive to develop artists as people; develop their music ministry so that others may be exposed to Jesus Christ; and develop, distribute and promote their music nationally and internationally on a commercially viable basis, so that the artist and Parachute Records have the financial resources to continue to develop their ministries”

Parachute Records.

Sorry, "Why do most Christian Bands suck?".

Im not enraptured by most music that i hear, I just dont identify genres when dissmissing their music/art as not palatable to Foal30.

Ok one for the road.. heh

The above was rhetoric, umm guess i'll be leaving irony out of this post then.

Sorry, but if a band plays at your local youth group disco, then gets the big call up to parachute, it hardly constitutes them as being new zealand music. I'm insulted (but not supprised) that you would try to pass off the latest popular christian hymms as new zealand music. It's never about music, it's always about God, how can it not be? You're all such lazy fucking musicians and this is proven by there being a christian alternative to every genre out there. Why are christian bands incapable of making anytihing original or credible? perhaps they are, but they never do. You see it's far easier to jump on the latest bandwagon and bastardise an already proven formular, if all you really want to do is get the word out. This is why the music always sucks, do you see?

There's no point in arguing with you, but please stop saying that christian bnads are good. It's not fair to all the people on this website that really love music. I wouldn't come into your church and fart along to your hyms, you see even if i was in tune i'd still be outta place. i just wouldn't do it, please show us the same courtesy.

Haha. Was that not the best episode of South Park you have seen in a long time? I haven't watched in awhile, but I thought it was great.

Aside, I heard they seperate males and females at Parachute. Well, that they are going to anyway ... What's with that? Male + Female does not nessacarily = Sex.

It was awesome! Cartman really is a genius.

too bad C4 stuffed that episode up, playing a part of it twice & not playing the ending. Doesn't metter cause I've seen that one before. Funny how they were taking the piss out of Metallica

yeh i guess the whole 'no girls in guys tents unless you're married' rule can be a bit of a turn off for us raging hetrosexuals. but as i said earlier, they can't exactly monitor all the rules they have 24/7. and besides if you're not gonna go to parachute due to the sheer stubborness of not wanting to 'conform' to any rules whatsoever, get over it! we all went to school didn't we? plus if you can't survive without sex for a weekend you can always have a go with miss palmer in ya lil old sleeping bag ;-)
if you can get over the fact that parachute has a few ground rules to help make the festival safer and more 'moral' (considering it's a christian festival) then it shouldn't affect how much fun you have.