Salmonella Dub beat Concord Dawn for top electronica album at the Tui Awards. Excuse me? One Drop East was a solid if unspectacular release from an excellent group. On the other hand, Uprising has made some huge waves overseas and has arguably broadened the horizons of d'n'b.
I appreciate that many worthy artists have been overlooked (which is why we have the bNet awards, in theory at least), and any awards which recognise diluted garbage like Hayley Westenra and Brooke Fraser need to be taken with a grain of salt. Concord Dawn should still have won (no offense to Salmonella Dub).
Obviously this is only my opinion, and I am certainly no d'n'b expert, but perhaps we could have some constructive discourse on this?
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Well, it was an interesting admission ...
Well, it was an interesting admission by Evan at the b.nets that he didn't really consider Uprising an album as such, more a compilation of tracks they'd released over the last year or so.
Salmonella Dub had, on the other hand, have done their usual thing of creating an actual 'album' with a feel and flow to it, as opposed to a few radio hits and some filler (others may argue that point). Whatever the case, they recorded the whole thing in one go, which is more in the spirit of recording an 'album' than throwing together everything you've released over 12 months onto a CD.
So, if you were going to be giving an award to a recording that best encompassed the spirit of the old-school album that you put on to listen to from start-to-finish, I reckon the Dub win.
Maybe there should be two categories: best album & best compilation of singles.
// has arguably broadened the horizons of d'n'b.
'arguably' being the operative word there.
// more a compilation of tracks they'd ...
// more a compilation of tracks they'd released over the last year or so.
"to make some cash" - that was a great speech; not as good as Barnaby's though: "best pop album - pop - all right ... whatever, cheers" [sic]
//more a compilation of tracks they'd ...
//more a compilation of tracks they'd released over the last year or so.
i think that's how dnb is released most of the time. before general release it is often leaked track by track to suit the flavour of the month.
i think.
it was Matt that said that at the ...
it was Matt that said that at the b.nets - Evan was in perth.
Without a doubt Uprising made a much greater impact this year than One Drop East, but whether it's an album as a whole or not, Sal Dub's involvement with EMI was an instant shoe-in for the award. the suit who accepted their award was practically shining with smug self-assured glee. I'm sure he just cued up a lunch with Adam Holt and sealed it a few weeks earlier. the tuis are just a lot of back-patting by the majors
Cant go giving an award to two guys with their own indie start up label from Kingsland now can we
most certainly not...
most certainly not
// it was Matt my mistake....
// it was Matt
my mistake.
ok- i admit hayley & brooke are ...
ok- i admit hayley & brooke are soulless- but fuck- theyre miles ahead of salmonella dub- not sure bout c dawn- ive only heard bout 4 tracks- thought 2 were fun- the other 2 total shite
To tell the truth iv'e got both albums ...
To tell the truth iv'e got both albums and never really listen to either of them.
yeah i own both as well and they seldom ...
yeah i own both as well and they seldom get played, but gawddam live these boys are something else
I struggle to enjoy a dub recording, ...
I struggle to enjoy a dub recording, but as you say, live it's just so much more.
Same goes for drum n' bass to a lesser extent. I dig most tracks on uprising, just the odd "erm... that sucked" moment.
I think alot of dub stuff is great for ...
I think alot of dub stuff is great for listining to, the more chilled out stuff anyway. and for me some dnb is good at home if its got a nice hook, but alot of the time it just gets boring...for me anyway.
It's almost alwasy great if it has a ...
It's almost alwasy great if it has a hugely present rythm.
That always helps my recorded appereciation.
Interesting to hear about Matt's ...
Interesting to hear about Matt's comment from the bNet awards. I guess my comments were based on which artist deserved more recognition for their work over the previous year. Didn't really think about whether the respective releases by Salmonella Dub and Concord Dawn really constituted an album in terms of being a cohesive body of work.
i talk to kids from all over the world ...
i talk to kids from all over the world all day evryday
in the past three weeks the name Concord dawn has popped up from english kids, american kids, and omfg one estonian kid.
I dont really dig on electronica (what ever that is) but that one with reign in blood on it is dope :)
I'm not sure that the 'album' ...
I'm not sure that the 'album' argument even comes into this, especially for drum'n'bass which generally gets released as 12" vinyls and then into LPs of 'tracks' to drop indervidually. The old-school album is for old-school music. A drum and bass mix album is nice to listen to from end to end, hense a lot of dnb releases come as both, so that the dnb enthusiast has the track and the mix....so a some what reduntant argument anyway.
I totally feel C.Dawn was robbed of an award - no disrespect to Salmonella Dub, but giving them another award is like giving Dave Dobbyn the award. I thought the old pat on the back days are long gone for electronica, but I was obviously wrong...I guess the industry people voting have no clue regarding the huge scenes that have evolved in the last 10 years and instead continue to hand out accolades to the 'tested and proven' of the past (Dumb asses).
My 2 cents.
It seems to me (but I don't consider ...
It seems to me (but I don't consider myself au courant with electronica) that if the award had been given to a group for stuff like international achievement , or for advancing the genre, or for changing people's lives in a big way, that Concord Dawn would have got it.
But as the award was solely about one album, Salmonella Dub won because the judges thought their album was better than Concord Dawn's album.
That's not to say that the judges thought Concord Dawn sucked, but that somehow Salmonella's album had an edge over Concord Dawn's album.
i just wanted to add that from a friend ...
i just wanted to add that from a friend who was up for an award a couple of years back that part of the criteria for this award is album sales...
sally dub definitely would have outsold concord dawn by a longshot, so more points for them on that one...
i think its funny no one has mentioned shapeshifter? and why didn't they kick ass over sally dub and concord dawn for the most innovative and listenable album of all 3
also: someone told me that the dub had pulled out of this award because they consider themselves to be a 'live' band, making recordings, not an electronic band doing electronic releases - the tuis have messed this one before and continue to fail to recognise the difference between bands like the dub, and groups like say pitch black. and funny that they gave the award to a band that didn't even want it - laugh
the tuis really do suck, i vote that there also be an awards called 'The Real New Zealand Music Awards' sponsored by Monteiths or something... any ideas?
yeah i was just about to ask, what ...
yeah i was just about to ask, what exactly is electronica?
actually i'll rephrase; roughly or ...
actually i'll rephrase;
roughly or broadly speaking, what is electronica?
in the context of these awards
so noone can tell me what this award is ...
so noone can tell me what this award is even for?
No, they're just ignoring you. ...
No, they're just ignoring you. :P
Sounds like a good topic starter actually...(nudge)
nudged but too lazy to start new ...
nudged but too lazy to start new topic,
but Mr Anderson who started this thread has been online in the interim, is it possible that even he has no idea what the award he's second guessing the reicpient of is for?
I suspect he's too lazy to think about ...
I suspect he's too lazy to think about it. I know I am. If there was a new topic I'd probably make the effort.
post #1233, what is nz music awards ...
post #1233, what is nz music awards definition of electronica?
totally.. lol...
totally.. lol
Sorry Christianity. I never actually ...
Sorry Christianity. I never actually log off the site - my password is a random jumble of letters and numbers and it is all to complicated (does that make me a bad person?). That doesn't mean I just sit on these threads all day - I am gainfully employed after all.
I see your point regarding the problem of genre. Efforts to pigeonhole music are becoming increasingly futile. So much good music, particularly in NZ with our strong DIY/improvisational ethic, has evolved beyond arbitrary distinctions - how do you classify SJD? Dimmer (don't even try to tell me it's "Rock")?
As soon as you reference genre you encounter problems of categorisation. The Tui Awards could avoid this by not using "Electronica" as a half-arsed catch-all for such diverse music, although to be honest I don't have any answer for this problem.
So to answer your question - ...
So to answer your question - Electronica in the context of the Tui Awards is a half-arsed catch all for diverse music.
And yes, it is incorrect to presume the ignorance of others just because you have a little more spare time than the rest of us to sit in front of your computer.
(use Reply to this post in the top ...
(use Reply to this post in the top right of the blue boxes to keep conversation flow)
as for "Electronica in the context of the Tui Awards is a half-arsed catch all for diverse music", that's a cop-out. The same could be said for the rock and urban/hip hop categories, not to mention classical and gospel. Hell, it could be said for the best male and female artist categories. Obviously there are only so many awards that they can give out and they've been grouped as is most convenient.
So the question remains - what distinguishes an electronica release from a pop, rock or hiphop release? What separates one genre from another? Personally I don't think it's possible to hardcode what a genre comprises. It's like law - if you're not exactly sure how the law applies to a particular situation then you test it in court. It's not about a list of rules on paper, but about building on everything that's gone before. I don't have a clue how to describe electronica, but shapeshifter and concord dawn are definitely it, Salmonella Dub isn't quite so much, but it's sure more electronica than it is hiphop or rock.
That's why I don't have a problem with genre; I don't think it's as restrictive as people that talk about pigeonholing.
Sorry Christianity, still haven't really answered your question, but that's my two cents anyhow.
I see your point - there is difficulty ...
I see your point - there is difficulty in defining all genres. I just think Electronica in particular is used to scoop up far too many types of music. For d'n'b, house, tehcno, breaks - music that is predominantly based around electronic instrumentation, fine. But dub, for example, is far too organic to be classed as electronica - perhaps a dub/roots/reggae award would be more appropriate, and we have plenty of NZ artisits who would fit into that category.
I have the similar concerns with the rock category. Dimmer isn't rock in the traditional sense of drums, bass, rhythm and lead guitar, with maybe a bit of piano or organ thrown in, but I am at a loss to classify artists like Dimmer, SJD and company who use mix up organic and electronic elements to their music and defy genre classification.
The problem here is not necessarily with the genre awards themselves (with the exception of Electronica), but what to do with artists who defy classification, particularly when they are often the most worthy of acclaim. Sorry for being long-winded by the way - unfortunately it seems to be incurable.
//but what to do with artists who defy ...
//but what to do with artists who defy classification, particularly when they are often the most worthy of acclaim
Yes, well put.
I do agree with your comment about electronica (in the context of the VMAs) as being a catch-all, but I think it's exactly the same with the rock category. Distinguishing based purely on gender, or the fact that the artists sing about god is probably even less helpful. I guess it's the nature of awards ceremonies, which are after all trying to rate the unrateable, that they don't distinguish so much by how the music sounds but by simple quantifiable factors - male/female, BMus + written score = classical, sold through christian bookstores = gospel, two guitars + bass + drums (+ optional keyboards) + decibels = rock, anything heavily utilising synths and samples = electronica.
Completely. Just to take another ...
Completely. Just to take another approach - awards like the Mercury Prize and the Shortlist Music Prize have merit because they do not attempt to categorise. Maybe a similar award with a broad shortlist could be used in NZ to recognise achievements by a diverse range of artists. Making the shortlist would give the artists more sincere recognition because the award is not tied to genre or a set number of nominations per award - particularly where some of the nominations in genre awards have a strong "making up the numbers" flavour. It would at least provide some balance to more commercially-driven awards like the Tuis.