...and my response is questioning whether you've been living in a bubble for the last 10 years. NZOA is arguably the single most hated government-sponsored organisation in the "struggling musician" demographic. Try googling "nzoa site:nzmusic.com". To suggest that "no-one is speaking up" is nonsense.
However, I wholly uphold your right to complain about the shortsightedness of NZOA funding. This is a genuine question: what system would you like to see NZOA replaced with, what would its goal be, and what results do you think it'd get? Start with the premise that NZOA's mandate is to get more kiwi-made stuff on TV and radio.
Yes....millionaires! Yes EMI are an international company and I bet they don't just have $2.89 in the bank at the end of the week. Tim Finn is also a millionaire. Yes this is New Zealand. Rock Star Supernova...Tommy Lee doesn't need to go to his government and ask for any money from the tax payer. What is different about those we have here?
To your question at the top, it's not what I am discussing in this thread but I have played everywhere you can think of in all sorts of bands for quite a few years all over NZ.
Tim Finn, EMI etc... they are all big enough to do their own vids without government funding.
Once again, this isn't about ME not getting funding. Please re-read the post. By letting those big (already successful) names receive government funding, stops the smaller, commercial - just unknown but very talented artists from getting a foot in the door. I know several different bands that deserve that opportunity.
Let me get this straight! I do NOT want to replace NZ on air and it is NOT about getting funding.
If you were EMI, Universal or a millionaire like Tim Finn, and you had more money in the bank than you knew what to do with, would you feel right about spending a meazly $5000 of your own money to make your next video, instead of being able to get money from tax payers? Why should my tax go to them? And why should yours?
I simply do not agree millionaire corporate companies are getting this funding and are stopping upcoming acts from getting it.
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm not affiliated with NZOA, I'm not strictly pro-NZOA but I do think they've done a whole lot more good work than they get credit for.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But I don't think there's any point mouthing off about the unfairness of NZOA without making some constructive suggestions as to what it is that "needs to be done". All you've written is first-semester NZOA-101. I've read it all before, every time a new funding round goes up. Take that as encouragement, you're not alone, not by a long shot.
I'll rephrase my question: what do you think needs to be done? How should NZOA change their funding model? I have plenty of ideas, but I'd like you to go first.
Simple really.....NZOA are doing great by funding artists that need assistance to get their music heard. Don't change that and push it harder and open up the numbers for these particular artists by making it an exclusion for corporate labels and artists signed to these companies that can afford to do it. They always have been able to afford it so why give them funding when that can be used for someone who cant afford it. Get it?
Yeah there are many things I could moan about, government actions, child murderers etc the list goes on. I would never kiss anyones ass and will continue doing what I am doing. But my focus is on the music scene and what is going on is NZOA is taking from the poor and giving to the rich. something I want to let people know about. Maybe no one will listen or do anything about it, but something needs to happen.
I think it does good but the corporates need to be excluded from applying.
I have contacted all prominent media like radio, TV and papers etc. It is on my website. I sent it to government officials. There is a viral email getting forwarded on by everyone. And I will be mentioning this everytime I play and whoever I talk to. I am just one person and that is what I have done and will continue to do.
If anyone wants this in email form please PM me and I will send it to you to forward onto everyone you know.
Just my opinion, but you know how they say that if someone's down on you the best revenge is to live well? Perhaps the best way to show NZOA their error in not supporting you and artists like you is to keep putting on popular gigs, keep making videos that get 100s of 1,000s of hits online, and keep recording songs that sell well on your website.
But my focus is on the music scene and what is going on is NZOA is taking from the poor and giving to the rich.
Umm, taking from the poor? The rich pay more tax.
I think it does good but the corporates need to be excluded from applying.
Oh, concrete suggestion, cool. One of NZOA's intentions is to encourage multinational corporates to invest more money in NZ acts rather than importing music. It takes very little overhead to ship in a new Rihanna or Justin Timberlake album - the production costs have already been covered in their native markets and all they have to do is send a bunch of boxes. A lot of marketing has already been done via international media. It costs hella more to produce, market and distribute a kiwi act - you need an entire national infrastructure to do so, and in NZ there is very little gain from investing those kind of resources, and traditionally multinationals have been loath to take the chance.
This particular scenario may not be necessary any more, due to the emergence of nz-based labels garnering a certain amount of commercial success. I wonder if that emergence is a coincidence.
well heather, since you wondered, i'l have a go.
so you're essentially saying that there is little to be gained by investing in resources to give new zealand music a commercial outlet?and that it would be less profitable to build a NZOA studio, (or anything that could generate any income BBC? TVNZ?), than it is to throw away the millions of dollars that has already been handed directly to multinational corporations. sounds like rubbish to me.
if they'd saved all that money they could have built kick ass studios, employed technicians, and given a shit load more artists recording and video time, saving on the studtio 'retail' costs used to prop up private ventures.
further down you ask, what to replace it with?
nothing
abolish it
close it all down
and if you want to see more of nzon air the government can enforce their quotas.
why?
well, shayne kind of illustrates why, when he says, "it's not a competition"
when it is a competition.
it's a competitive industry
and popularity decides who earns and who starves.
so inflating certain groups to the fore, without them being more popular, enforcing popularity, adjusting and artificially instilling what is popular in the masses. and then telling you it's there because it's popular, is not right. it's not accurate
and the damage this has done is so evident in Shayne's comment "it's not a competition"
that it's obvious that it's gonna take years before musicians come down to the realistic idea, that some shit that was good was killed by new zealand on air and alot of shit that was shit was inflicted on the masses. under the guise of popularity
i mean it must be hard to know who other new zealanders really are, who new zealand really is, when your sole knowledge of what is popular culture in your country is government enforced.
that's fucking ignorance, enforced ignorance. enforced.
when you got little kids growing up watching music vids
that noone except a small government committee chose, to represent popularity
and enforcing certain production values, politics, lyrical symbolism, instrumentation and physical attributes
rather than sticking to their role as an audience
puts them in the position of being mindless government propagandarists.
there is literally no difference between NZOA and the equivalent Chinese organization
it's no exaggeration
NZOA bypasses democracy in exactly the same way
by enforcing government sponsored music
onto the masses.
you don't encourage a fair competition by giving some a head start
you don't enhance your nations natural qualities by give certain aspects preferential treatment
you have a garden
you water some plants, not others
which grow?
with such a backward attitude to culture it's no surprise kids are out causing mayhem
there must be plenty of kids want to go and cause crime when they've been duped to believe that they live in a country where people actually liked the feelers or stellar
they want to kill their fellow countrymen and women
because they can not tolerate living side by side people who support elmnop,
not knowing
that elmnop or whoever are not actually naturally that popular among the masses
simply that the government made them so.
and furthermore
when it comes down to it
the overriding majorative overwhelming, most widely felt purpose of new zealand on air is to tell new zealand musicians
on the whole, in the main, and in general
that
"sorry, you are not good enough"
now what the fuck is a government of any country, let alone the new zeland 'we just bought shares in the cheney corporation' government doing
thinking
they have any fucking mandate
whatsoever
to tell muicians,
that they're not good enough
at fucking anything.
nah,
i'm not good
nzoa are good. they are just that good that for each video funding round they give 27 lucky winners a chance to make a music video valued at $5000 tax free, without even looking at a proposal for that video
they are just that extra super,
that they need only listen to the music to know,
if it'll be a smashhit video!
or not
which puts them up their with God
to be able to just hear how that will look.
that's serious fucking artistic schops required
u can go up to them,
any of them who decided the video grantz
and give them the choice to two songs
say wagner's 'ride of the valkerez' and that sumptuous albeit very green visual extravaganza that could be 'greensleeves'
and
they have that power
you'd like to hope so at 5K a pop...
to tell you which of those videos most deserves a grant.
but for me,
dolling out over a million bucks a round
on shit they've seen no proposal for
and videos they've asked for no proposal for
strikes me
as the work of
the mentally challenged
'A sobering stat - we get about 95-110 applications in every two month round and we are looking for just 27 projects to fund.'
a sobering stat...
yet they are gods.
but check it`-
if you wanna make a album
there's no education form
all you need to prove is :
The artist's track record at commercial radio - the artist must have at least two current commercial radio hits to their name.
Potential to yield at least four more commercial radio hits.
A convincing recording and marketing planz, including a release deal.
so
anyone can see
it's smarter to go for the video grant
cos you don't have to make a proposal, which is less work and better for the environment.
also
and safer
and
when you get your grant check
u can stick a still frame of your mamma
over that music
for it's entirety
...
and then roll your eyes as you imagine brendon smyth late for work monday morning taking that call.
"yes martin, i see"
adjusting his tie
"WE did give him a 5k vid grant, yes i'm aware it's just his cat vomitting martin, yes WE oked that. we did it, it's a done deal, they cashed the cheque, "
followed by a gentle creaking silence in which martin is calling brendon all names under the sun, followed by,
"ok martin, next time we'll ask for proposals first"
cos those guyz
NZOA
makes sure
they gets the infoz theyz needs
to do his/her job
right.
>> and popularity decides who earns and who starves.
Popularity and marketing ... Marketing is what drives the industry (apart from a small few who manage to build a base first)... You think Rhianna had to play venues for years before making "a hit record"
It seemed to spread really quickly in the first few days it was up and got onto front pages in the music section which skyrocketed the number of people coming across it. After a time it went off the front pages and the obvious decline in numbers since. Most of those people come directly through the web site now and buy there or visit, than go to you tube.com
FWIW NZOA have been investigating ways they can treat the internet as a broadcast medium. None of the current funding models apply to the internet, but given the impact of youtube and myspace, as well as traditional broadcast media developing a content-rich online presence, it sounds like they're intending to incorporate internet media into their structure. I think they're in the process of developing their own internet portal.
If they develop their own internet portal and help NZ Bands succeed and help with exposure and funding, then that's all good. But at the end of the day, there is absolutely no justification why they should be using taxpayer money to fund corporates and those already successful within the NZ Music scene.
Also, for the record - I haven't seen any other NZ artist receive the amount of views that my vid received. But we will strive forward on our own and continue doing what we are doing. To me it's not a competition, I just want to get my music heard - that's all.
Heather says: "It costs hella more to produce, market and distribute a kiwi act"
Yes, it does, but that is what the funding should be going towards - not to those artists that are already capitalising on what they sell. The Corporates can afford to develop NZ artists, they have the money or they wouldn't be in business - it's as simple as that.
Warning: This post might be a little long-winded. It comes in two parts.
Part 1
That's the way (uh-huh uh-huh) positiv-ah-tee
I like this thread. It's been a while since there's been a long-ish debate on this site.
The downside of NZOA giving money to those who can afford to make their own video has been clearly stated. Some constructive suggestions have been made. E.g.,
NZOA are doing great by funding artists that need assistance to get their music heard. Don't change that and push it harder and open up the numbers for these particular artists by making it an exclusion for corporate labels and artists signed to these companies that can afford to do it.
just keep doing what you're doing [...] and i'm sure at the end of the day, your chops'll be better for it.
keep putting on popular gigs, keep making videos that get 100s of 1,000s of hits online, and keep recording songs that sell well on your website
Any more?
Part 2
I believe you are [not] a star
OK, we've established that--right or wrong--NZOA backs videos that are highly likely to get lots of airplay. Some of us think that they shold give that funding to smaller artists who can't afford it. Fair enough--that's a valid sentiment.
Now then, devil's advocate. Let's play out this argument.
Making a video and getting air time for a video are two different things; the one does not guarantee the other. So, if you make a video that is not not likely to get airplay, does that mean the making of video is the end and not the means? If so, why is the video being made?
If not, making the video is the means to what end? Promoting the band and working towards eventual profitability, obviously. Sure, but doesn't that take airplay? How are you going to get that airplay? And if you already have a viable reason for getting airplay, wouldn't NZOA have funded you in the first place?
if
they funded
a music video
which equals or surpasses the beauty or lack of and human creative achievement of this vagina, painted by gustave courbet (warning, NSFW).
-a music video portraying a similar or the same vagina, or a painting, filmed using current 21st century technology
(which obviously requires some imagination to take your self back to the 1850s when people truly knew how to appreciate a vagina.)
The music industry in NZ is a vicious circle. You are right to say you need to create great music that people like and play good live shows as mentioned earlier. There is a lot of 'it's who you know' in this business and radio programmers won't look at something that NZOA rejected (take it from experience) so they are playing God in this biz' and say who the kids or NZers should listen to and definitely have that control. I agree you should have potential airplay to get funding, but the people in power may just have a different or personal idea of what is commercial. Someone in NZOA really likes this la de da music like Brooke Fraser, Kimbra, Annabel Fay etc and that is not what me or anyone I know wants to hear, let alone buy. But see I gave you my personal opinion and you may or may not agree with me. They tell me I am not commercial and there is nothing I can do about it, but my fans and view tally on my vids says otherwise. Catch my drift?
On the other hand, it doesn't bother me as if you could see the thousands of peoples e-mails that I get that watch my video, it surpasses all those nay sayers and always will. To me it's me and the fans.
Again I only opened this thread because no matter who NZOA choose to give a cheque to, it should not be those who are laughing all the way to the bank already and that already have that foot in the door.
no body moans who is not a band not getting funding
hence no body in the real world cares
or it shows how minor our funding disparities are for the "tax-payer"
I tend to feel aggrieved with anyone who choose to identify themselves as a tax-payer. Like how about water drinker or air-breather too. It sure gets dark at night
of some interest to me is Brendon Smythe taking the time to critique/correct Real Groove on what political party started NZOA yet seems to public ally at least not address held opinions of yourselves and other prominent ne'erdowells. This, for me says a quite a bit in what is not said.
maybe you moaners are beneath appointed ambassadors of taste and favor.
We Live in a Market
the Market is not fair, nor free, nor fun
probably a scorched earth policy may save some of us
foal30 sez: "but Scorched Earth Policy never got NZOA funding".
With a name like Scorched Earth Policy, no wonder. Perhaps they should have called themselves Nikau Burns and the Scorched Earth Policy.
Boom-boom! Thank you folks, you're a wonderful audience.
But seriously, I think foal30 is right. It's a market, and no market player is going to willingly invest in something they know will get them no return. But addctd4now also has a point: less viable bands deserve funding, too. So perhaps there should be a separate funding body where the goal is to make and distribute the video but not necessarily to get a certain level of air time, which could give grants to up-and-comers.
not convinced these are related phenomena
but you sure have a way with words.
Musicians must interact in a commercial sense with the wider community, if they wish to be paid.
Quite how a video grant does this I am not sure.
The skill in selling your product in this case Music or performance of such, or T Shirt or ring tone is a far more worthwhile and rewarding skill than "writing world class songs". People cue to buy shit.
I think you are more than an interested observer...I think I am even if I don't apply.
NZOA or any "funding" directorate observes the nature of the economic system it inhabits
If we really want what some are you are asking, then Market Capitalism is not going to provide virtually any of this. Why would such an ideology concern itself with "National Identity" or any other feel good descriptor we may wish to quote. "Our Music for Our People", it cannot be this when that is not, nor can ever be, the prime objective.
busted
then I got lucky
it was supposed to read different
as in I can't see your "connections".
as for the job, I've public ally endorsed Jody and I'll do it again. He's moaned so loud and for so long, his ego or sense of self worth could not survive without doing a fine job. It is also important to only work for employers you ethically allow you too sleep at night. Thirdly people from the South Island, or more specifically Christchurch, should be making decisions that effect a lot of people.
use of NZ as acronym
well I do feel this way but I'm in the minority
NZOA is a micron ism of the modern welfare state
hand-outs for big business
and enough crumbs from the masters table to keep the masses full enough to stay put.
I see Ms Fay on the list
can you imagine "NZ on Beer" giving one of Doug Myers offspring $5000 to paint bottle-tops?
you think Papa has enough to sort, but no, No Shame, the Public Trough is white collar P
funny how it used to be the stock market
That Ventura ep.27 business is possibly the strangest thing I've seen on the internet. Had me laughing out loud (sincerely, not just lolololololing) aplenty.
hmmm isn't the goal of NZOA to give funding to ANY NZ artist? ... why should people like Brooke Fraser etc miss out just because they are already commercially successful?
Isn't the long term goal to help artists get international exposure - how can they do that if they're not commercially successful in their own country?
I'm not saying it's right, but if NZOA were to exclude artists such as these, then that would be discrimination, and would also still NOT be NZ on air.
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I ... would like to speak up
I ... would like to speak up ... because no-one else will.
I believe no one ever says anything in NZ
Dude, where have you been??
That's a very pertinent
That's a very pertinent question Heather.
Where have you played Shayne.?
This post is questioning why
This post is questioning why millionaires are getting funded, those who already make up 20 percent of NZ radio, and can afford their own videos.
...and my response is
...and my response is questioning whether you've been living in a bubble for the last 10 years. NZOA is arguably the single most hated government-sponsored organisation in the "struggling musician" demographic. Try googling "nzoa site:nzmusic.com". To suggest that "no-one is speaking up" is nonsense.
However, I wholly uphold your right to complain about the shortsightedness of NZOA funding. This is a genuine question: what system would you like to see NZOA replaced with, what would its goal be, and what results do you think it'd get? Start with the premise that NZOA's mandate is to get more kiwi-made stuff on TV and radio.
Millionaires,??.. Dude this
Millionaires,??..
Dude this is New Zealand, not Rock star Supernova.
Play a few shows, get a few real fans.
Good luck.
Yes....millionaires! Yes EMI
Yes....millionaires! Yes EMI are an international company and I bet they don't just have $2.89 in the bank at the end of the week. Tim Finn is also a millionaire. Yes this is New Zealand. Rock Star Supernova...Tommy Lee doesn't need to go to his government and ask for any money from the tax payer. What is different about those we have here?
To your question at the top, it's not what I am discussing in this thread but I have played everywhere you can think of in all sorts of bands for quite a few years all over NZ.
Tim Finn, EMI etc... they
Tim Finn, EMI etc... they are all big enough to do their own vids without government funding.
Once again, this isn't about ME not getting funding. Please re-read the post. By letting those big (already successful) names receive government funding, stops the smaller, commercial - just unknown but very talented artists from getting a foot in the door. I know several different bands that deserve that opportunity.
save the whales
save the whales
DIY for the win
DIY for the win
Let me get this straight! I
Let me get this straight! I do NOT want to replace NZ on air and it is NOT about getting funding.
If you were EMI, Universal or a millionaire like Tim Finn, and you had more money in the bank than you knew what to do with, would you feel right about spending a meazly $5000 of your own money to make your next video, instead of being able to get money from tax payers? Why should my tax go to them? And why should yours?
I simply do not agree millionaire corporate companies are getting this funding and are stopping upcoming acts from getting it.
For the sake of full
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm not affiliated with NZOA, I'm not strictly pro-NZOA but I do think they've done a whole lot more good work than they get credit for.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But I don't think there's any point mouthing off about the unfairness of NZOA without making some constructive suggestions as to what it is that "needs to be done". All you've written is first-semester NZOA-101. I've read it all before, every time a new funding round goes up. Take that as encouragement, you're not alone, not by a long shot.
I'll rephrase my question: what do you think needs to be done? How should NZOA change their funding model? I have plenty of ideas, but I'd like you to go first.
Simple really.....NZOA are
Simple really.....NZOA are doing great by funding artists that need assistance to get their music heard. Don't change that and push it harder and open up the numbers for these particular artists by making it an exclusion for corporate labels and artists signed to these companies that can afford to do it. They always have been able to afford it so why give them funding when that can be used for someone who cant afford it. Get it?
save the whales
save the whales
Yeah there are many things I
Yeah there are many things I could moan about, government actions, child murderers etc the list goes on. I would never kiss anyones ass and will continue doing what I am doing. But my focus is on the music scene and what is going on is NZOA is taking from the poor and giving to the rich. something I want to let people know about. Maybe no one will listen or do anything about it, but something needs to happen.
I think it does good but the corporates need to be excluded from applying.
Cheers
addctd4now says: "...
addctd4now says: "... something needs to happen".
Too bloody right.
What have you done to get the ball rolling?
I have contacted all
I have contacted all prominent media like radio, TV and papers etc. It is on my website. I sent it to government officials. There is a viral email getting forwarded on by everyone. And I will be mentioning this everytime I play and whoever I talk to. I am just one person and that is what I have done and will continue to do.
If anyone wants this in email form please PM me and I will send it to you to forward onto everyone you know.
Good for you, bloke. Just my
Good for you, bloke.
Just my opinion, but you know how they say that if someone's down on you the best revenge is to live well? Perhaps the best way to show NZOA their error in not supporting you and artists like you is to keep putting on popular gigs, keep making videos that get 100s of 1,000s of hits online, and keep recording songs that sell well on your website.
That might make 'em sit up and take notice.
Good luck.
That's the plan....
That's the plan.... !
Cheers mate
But my focus is on the music
But my focus is on the music scene and what is going on is NZOA is taking from the poor and giving to the rich.
Umm, taking from the poor? The rich pay more tax.
I think it does good but the corporates need to be excluded from applying.
Oh, concrete suggestion, cool. One of NZOA's intentions is to encourage multinational corporates to invest more money in NZ acts rather than importing music. It takes very little overhead to ship in a new Rihanna or Justin Timberlake album - the production costs have already been covered in their native markets and all they have to do is send a bunch of boxes. A lot of marketing has already been done via international media. It costs hella more to produce, market and distribute a kiwi act - you need an entire national infrastructure to do so, and in NZ there is very little gain from investing those kind of resources, and traditionally multinationals have been loath to take the chance.
This particular scenario may not be necessary any more, due to the emergence of nz-based labels garnering a certain amount of commercial success. I wonder if that emergence is a coincidence.
well heather, since you
well heather, since you wondered, i'l have a go.
so you're essentially saying that there is little to be gained by investing in resources to give new zealand music a commercial outlet?and that it would be less profitable to build a NZOA studio, (or anything that could generate any income BBC? TVNZ?), than it is to throw away the millions of dollars that has already been handed directly to multinational corporations. sounds like rubbish to me.
if they'd saved all that money they could have built kick ass studios, employed technicians, and given a shit load more artists recording and video time, saving on the studtio 'retail' costs used to prop up private ventures.
further down you ask, what to replace it with?
nothing
abolish it
close it all down
and if you want to see more of nzon air the government can enforce their quotas.
why?
well, shayne kind of illustrates why, when he says, "it's not a competition"
when it is a competition.
it's a competitive industry
and popularity decides who earns and who starves.
so inflating certain groups to the fore, without them being more popular, enforcing popularity, adjusting and artificially instilling what is popular in the masses. and then telling you it's there because it's popular, is not right. it's not accurate
and the damage this has done is so evident in Shayne's comment "it's not a competition"
that it's obvious that it's gonna take years before musicians come down to the realistic idea, that some shit that was good was killed by new zealand on air and alot of shit that was shit was inflicted on the masses. under the guise of popularity
i mean it must be hard to know who other new zealanders really are, who new zealand really is, when your sole knowledge of what is popular culture in your country is government enforced.
that's fucking ignorance, enforced ignorance. enforced.
when you got little kids growing up watching music vids
that noone except a small government committee chose, to represent popularity
and enforcing certain production values, politics, lyrical symbolism, instrumentation and physical attributes
rather than sticking to their role as an audience
puts them in the position of being mindless government propagandarists.
there is literally no difference between NZOA and the equivalent Chinese organization
it's no exaggeration
NZOA bypasses democracy in exactly the same way
by enforcing government sponsored music
onto the masses.
you don't encourage a fair competition by giving some a head start
you don't enhance your nations natural qualities by give certain aspects preferential treatment
you have a garden
you water some plants, not others
which grow?
with such a backward attitude to culture it's no surprise kids are out causing mayhem
there must be plenty of kids want to go and cause crime when they've been duped to believe that they live in a country where people actually liked the feelers or stellar
they want to kill their fellow countrymen and women
because they can not tolerate living side by side people who support elmnop,
not knowing
that elmnop or whoever are not actually naturally that popular among the masses
simply that the government made them so.
wow!!! well said
wow!!! well said
and furthermore when it
and furthermore
when it comes down to it
the overriding majorative overwhelming, most widely felt purpose of new zealand on air is to tell new zealand musicians
on the whole, in the main, and in general
that
"sorry, you are not good enough"
now what the fuck is a government of any country, let alone the new zeland 'we just bought shares in the cheney corporation' government doing
thinking
they have any fucking mandate
whatsoever
to tell muicians,
that they're not good enough
at fucking anything.
accept paying their taxes and abiding by the law
You're good man!
You're good man!
nah, i'm not good nzoa are
nah,
i'm not good
nzoa are good. they are just that good that for each video funding round they give 27 lucky winners a chance to make a music video valued at $5000 tax free, without even looking at a proposal for that video
they are just that extra super,
that they need only listen to the music to know,
if it'll be a smashhit video!
or not
which puts them up their with God
to be able to just hear how that will look.
that's serious fucking artistic schops required
u can go up to them,
any of them who decided the video grantz
and give them the choice to two songs
say wagner's 'ride of the valkerez' and that sumptuous albeit very green visual extravaganza that could be 'greensleeves'
and
they have that power
you'd like to hope so at 5K a pop...
to tell you which of those videos most deserves a grant.
but for me,
dolling out over a million bucks a round
on shit they've seen no proposal for
and videos they've asked for no proposal for
strikes me
as the work of
the mentally challenged
'A sobering stat - we get about 95-110 applications in every two month round and we are looking for just 27 projects to fund.'
a sobering stat...
yet they are gods.
but check it`-
if you wanna make a album
there's no education form
all you need to prove is :
The artist's track record at commercial radio - the artist must have at least two current commercial radio hits to their name.
Potential to yield at least four more commercial radio hits.
A convincing recording and marketing planz, including a release deal.
so
anyone can see
it's smarter to go for the video grant
cos you don't have to make a proposal, which is less work and better for the environment.
also
and safer
and
when you get your grant check
u can stick a still frame of your mamma
over that music
for it's entirety
...
and then roll your eyes as you imagine brendon smyth late for work monday morning taking that call.
"yes martin, i see"
adjusting his tie
"WE did give him a 5k vid grant, yes i'm aware it's just his cat vomitting martin, yes WE oked that. we did it, it's a done deal, they cashed the cheque, "
followed by a gentle creaking silence in which martin is calling brendon all names under the sun, followed by,
"ok martin, next time we'll ask for proposals first"
cos those guyz
NZOA
makes sure
they gets the infoz theyz needs
to do his/her job
right.
Ha ha...gotta buy you a beer
Ha ha...gotta buy you a beer for that one
>> and popularity decides
>> and popularity decides who earns and who starves.
Popularity and marketing ... Marketing is what drives the industry (apart from a small few who manage to build a base first)... You think Rhianna had to play venues for years before making "a hit record"
save the whales
save the whales
It seemed to spread really
It seemed to spread really quickly in the first few days it was up and got onto front pages in the music section which skyrocketed the number of people coming across it. After a time it went off the front pages and the obvious decline in numbers since. Most of those people come directly through the web site now and buy there or visit, than go to you tube.com
well 310k is a lot more than
well 310k is a lot more than see most nzoa clips, so you should be pretty stoked. i'm still stuck below 1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7F2q2D9HJ4
FWIW NZOA have been
FWIW NZOA have been investigating ways they can treat the internet as a broadcast medium. None of the current funding models apply to the internet, but given the impact of youtube and myspace, as well as traditional broadcast media developing a content-rich online presence, it sounds like they're intending to incorporate internet media into their structure. I think they're in the process of developing their own internet portal.
are you an advertisement?
are you an advertisement?
Above, Heather says: "For
Above, Heather says: "For the sake of full disclosure, I'm not affiliated with NZOA"
So, in that case, an advertisement could be the correct assumption.
save the whales
save the whales
If they develop their own
If they develop their own internet portal and help NZ Bands succeed and help with exposure and funding, then that's all good. But at the end of the day, there is absolutely no justification why they should be using taxpayer money to fund corporates and those already successful within the NZ Music scene.
Also, for the record - I haven't seen any other NZ artist receive the amount of views that my vid received. But we will strive forward on our own and continue doing what we are doing. To me it's not a competition, I just want to get my music heard - that's all.
Heather says: "It costs hella more to produce, market and distribute a kiwi act"
Yes, it does, but that is what the funding should be going towards - not to those artists that are already capitalising on what they sell. The Corporates can afford to develop NZ artists, they have the money or they wouldn't be in business - it's as simple as that.
Warning: This post might be
Warning: This post might be a little long-winded. It comes in two parts.
Part 1
That's the way (uh-huh uh-huh) positiv-ah-tee
I like this thread. It's been a while since there's been a long-ish debate on this site.
The downside of NZOA giving money to those who can afford to make their own video has been clearly stated. Some constructive suggestions have been made. E.g.,
Any more?
Part 2
I believe you are [not] a star
OK, we've established that--right or wrong--NZOA backs videos that are highly likely to get lots of airplay. Some of us think that they shold give that funding to smaller artists who can't afford it. Fair enough--that's a valid sentiment.
Now then, devil's advocate. Let's play out this argument.
Making a video and getting air time for a video are two different things; the one does not guarantee the other. So, if you make a video that is not not likely to get airplay, does that mean the making of video is the end and not the means? If so, why is the video being made?
If not, making the video is the means to what end? Promoting the band and working towards eventual profitability, obviously. Sure, but doesn't that take airplay? How are you going to get that airplay? And if you already have a viable reason for getting airplay, wouldn't NZOA have funded you in the first place?
if they funded a music
if
they funded
a music video
which equals or surpasses the beauty or lack of and human creative achievement of this vagina, painted by gustave courbet (warning, NSFW).
-a music video portraying a similar or the same vagina, or a painting, filmed using current 21st century technology
(which obviously requires some imagination to take your self back to the 1850s when people truly knew how to appreciate a vagina.)
then that's just nuts
The music industry in NZ is
The music industry in NZ is a vicious circle. You are right to say you need to create great music that people like and play good live shows as mentioned earlier. There is a lot of 'it's who you know' in this business and radio programmers won't look at something that NZOA rejected (take it from experience) so they are playing God in this biz' and say who the kids or NZers should listen to and definitely have that control. I agree you should have potential airplay to get funding, but the people in power may just have a different or personal idea of what is commercial. Someone in NZOA really likes this la de da music like Brooke Fraser, Kimbra, Annabel Fay etc and that is not what me or anyone I know wants to hear, let alone buy. But see I gave you my personal opinion and you may or may not agree with me. They tell me I am not commercial and there is nothing I can do about it, but my fans and view tally on my vids says otherwise. Catch my drift?
On the other hand, it doesn't bother me as if you could see the thousands of peoples e-mails that I get that watch my video, it surpasses all those nay sayers and always will. To me it's me and the fans.
Again I only opened this thread because no matter who NZOA choose to give a cheque to, it should not be those who are laughing all the way to the bank already and that already have that foot in the door.
the 1850s, when people truly
the 1850s, when people truly knew how to appreciate a vagina
Ahahahahaha! Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
it's Bring back country,
it's Bring back country,
Bring Back That's Country
Bring Back That's Country
no body moans who is not a
no body moans who is not a band not getting funding
hence no body in the real world cares
or it shows how minor our funding disparities are for the "tax-payer"
I tend to feel aggrieved with anyone who choose to identify themselves as a tax-payer. Like how about water drinker or air-breather too. It sure gets dark at night
of some interest to me is Brendon Smythe taking the time to critique/correct Real Groove on what political party started NZOA yet seems to public ally at least not address held opinions of yourselves and other prominent ne'erdowells. This, for me says a quite a bit in what is not said.
maybe you moaners are beneath appointed ambassadors of taste and favor.
We Live in a Market
the Market is not fair, nor free, nor fun
probably a scorched earth policy may save some of us
but Scorched Earth Policy never got NZOA funding.
foal30 sez: "but Scorched
foal30 sez: "but Scorched Earth Policy never got NZOA funding".
With a name like Scorched Earth Policy, no wonder. Perhaps they should have called themselves Nikau Burns and the Scorched Earth Policy.
Boom-boom! Thank you folks, you're a wonderful audience.
But seriously, I think foal30 is right. It's a market, and no market player is going to willingly invest in something they know will get them no return. But addctd4now also has a point: less viable bands deserve funding, too. So perhaps there should be a separate funding body where the goal is to make and distribute the video but not necessarily to get a certain level of air time, which could give grants to up-and-comers.
'adel weiss' moment
'adel weiss' moment
not convinced these are
not convinced these are related phenomena
but you sure have a way with words.
Musicians must interact in a commercial sense with the wider community, if they wish to be paid.
Quite how a video grant does this I am not sure.
The skill in selling your product in this case Music or performance of such, or T Shirt or ring tone is a far more worthwhile and rewarding skill than "writing world class songs". People cue to buy shit.
I think you are more than an interested observer...I think I am even if I don't apply.
NZOA or any "funding" directorate observes the nature of the economic system it inhabits
If we really want what some are you are asking, then Market Capitalism is not going to provide virtually any of this. Why would such an ideology concern itself with "National Identity" or any other feel good descriptor we may wish to quote. "Our Music for Our People", it cannot be this when that is not, nor can ever be, the prime objective.
save the whales
save the whales
busted then I got lucky it
busted
then I got lucky
it was supposed to read different
as in I can't see your "connections".
as for the job, I've public ally endorsed Jody and I'll do it again. He's moaned so loud and for so long, his ego or sense of self worth could not survive without doing a fine job. It is also important to only work for employers you ethically allow you too sleep at night. Thirdly people from the South Island, or more specifically Christchurch, should be making decisions that effect a lot of people.
use of NZ as acronym
well I do feel this way but I'm in the minority
NZOA is a micron ism of the modern welfare state
hand-outs for big business
and enough crumbs from the masters table to keep the masses full enough to stay put.
I see Ms Fay on the list
can you imagine "NZ on Beer" giving one of Doug Myers offspring $5000 to paint bottle-tops?
you think Papa has enough to sort, but no, No Shame, the Public Trough is white collar P
funny how it used to be the stock market
2007 $20 (pizza and beer)
2007 $20 (pizza and beer)
That Ventura ep.27 business
That Ventura ep.27 business is possibly the strangest thing I've seen on the internet. Had me laughing out loud (sincerely, not just lolololololing) aplenty.
save the whales
save the whales
hmmm isn't the goal of NZOA
hmmm isn't the goal of NZOA to give funding to ANY NZ artist? ... why should people like Brooke Fraser etc miss out just because they are already commercially successful?
Isn't the long term goal to help artists get international exposure - how can they do that if they're not commercially successful in their own country?
I'm not saying it's right, but if NZOA were to exclude artists such as these, then that would be discrimination, and would also still NOT be NZ on air.